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Arnob's Cbr250R Detailed Long Term Review


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#136 pulsurge

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 09:19 PM

Mama's bike means Cop's bike only beta ;) here's another one... excluding from the Amreeka flag them, I liked all black treatment:

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#137 pulsurge

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 03:50 PM

I had been to the service centre regarding issues related to bad coneset settings, harder gearshifts, rattling sound from inside the fairing between 4500-6000 rpm. None of them were sorted. Hunted for the mail id of the Service Centre and Honda 2 Wheelers India from the web and wrote them a nice long mail.

The Workshop Manager Mr. Bobby called up today morning requesting me to bring my bike tomorrow to the service centre and they will work it out. Looks like Honda India too had called the Service Centre and gave some dose. The Manager called up again asking if I had put up a complaint again. He wasn't aware that I had put in a similar mail to Honda too telling them that they need to pull up their socks on the service part and crack the whip on these service centres who had no idea of what they were doing on the bikes. I told Mr. Bobby that I put in a mail to Honda too on the issue. He requested me to reply back to Honda saying that he had called me and would take care of the issue, which I did.

Will go tomorrow to the service centre...lets see what these guys do.
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#138 L.P.

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 05:07 AM

This question is Directed to ARN, Also I dont know why poeple call you 'DOC' :P Please enlighten me.

I have a quick question to you,I spent nearly an hour reading the entire thread thoroughly, found that there is nothing that you have missed, nothing that could have been said more.

Now What i wanna ask is, I Rode this bike for Good like 70-80kms in Delhi's terrific terrifying traffic, and then on open roads for 50kms, City's Riding was as you said, Nothing Diff, A Little more powerful ZMA :D

Not that when I hit the Empty roads, I felt some Rattling Noise and Some Vibrations, Still Fine, with it, I being around like good 75kgs, Pillion Like 55 odd kilograms, and then a tank bag, loaded with some stuff and camera gears, were doing good like 120kmph, had to take a turn left hander on a flyover, while leaning it down, I felt as if the Bike was counter sterring itself to push me to get it upright first and then open the throttle, it was reluctant to take the curve as sharply as I could do it on My ZMA.
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#139 arn

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 09:42 AM

This bike needs the gas on turns. It also needs precise tyre pressures and properly set steering head bearings, which some mechanics have not yet figured out. I've noticed a change at Honda dealerships  of late - everything on the CBR is tightened with a torque wrench these days.

I've never got rid of the chicken strips on my ZMA tyres. Never, in spite of it being much easier, as you say, to turn in. Even with the R15 rear suspension upgrade (which bumped up handling tremendously), it always felt just that bit disconnected and woozy at higher lean angles due to the flexi chassis which is not confidence inspiring. The CBR does not feel that way at all when you get aggressive on the corners - the rigid chassis sends it where you want it to go. Even if it feels reluctant to initially take the turn, simply increasing the lean and dialing in the throttle will do the trick. For this, though, one as to overcome the mental block of opening the throttle while going into a turn fast.

But - that takes practise - and a throttle that is being opened immediately after the initial turn in. The only area lacking on turns is the fact that the power drops dramatically after 9000 rpm and mid corner gear changes disturb the balance, so you have to know what you expect the rpm to be when you EXIT the corner and use a slightly higher gear (where you can use the mid range torque).

If you can get hold of Keith Code's book, do go through it - it will explain much better than I can in the limited time I have as to the physics of why you need to gas it through the turn.

#140 pulsurge

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:20 AM

 arn, on 21 March 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:

For this, though, one as to overcome the mental block of opening the throttle while going into a turn fast.

Doc,

This is precisely the problem am having...that mental block. I get this eery feeling that if I open the throttle, I'll skid due to a wheelspin. Also mid corner gear changes is another problem- I happen to do it every now and then as I feel that the bike needs a bit more push to stay planted.

Am surprised that I go pretty quick on wide corners, but tighter ones...I just go too conservative.

I know its a silly request, but I wish if you could write something on the riding part of the CBR. Also all of Keith's Code SR's go for a toss when I enter a corner :D
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#141 rahul_rn

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:59 AM

LP because arn is a DAAKTAR, now you have to decide which one.. :D
and my take on zma was a bit different from you doc, although i did a lean around a max of 70-80 it felt planted, easy to turn in but again as you mentioned i was hitting the rev limiter much too often and had to shift up that was taking the fun out.. Your part might be right for higher speeds i guess..
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#142 pulsurge

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:15 PM

 rahul_rn, on 21 March 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

but again as you mentioned i was hitting the rev limiter much too often and had to shift up that was taking the fun out.. Your part might be right for higher speeds i guess..

That is an utter punishment to a beautiful bike....what you thought you were riding an R15 :P The ZMA never needed that much revs into the corner. On one of my favourite corners, I could go at 110-115 in top gear and never felt that it needed extra  throttle input.
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#143 rahul_rn

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 01:03 PM

 pulsurge, on 21 March 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

That is an utter punishment to a beautiful bike....what you thought you were riding an R15 :P The ZMA never needed that much revs into the corner. On one of my favourite corners, I could go at 110-115 in top gear and never felt that it needed extra  throttle input.

well D bhau i know it is punishment to a really good bike but that was the first time i had got a zma to enjoy to the fullest.. :D earlier i used to get warnings no fun at all... And that time there was no bike that was that good i.e. power delivery, handling, stability etc so i was a kid who got his most favourities toy in the whole wide world to play with, then what will happen..??
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#144 Silver Phantom

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 02:16 PM

 L.P., on 21 March 2012 - 05:07 AM, said:

This question is Directed to ARN, Also I dont know why poeple call you 'DOC' :P Please enlighten me.

The Doc is an Orthodontologist (i hope the spelling is correct) Boleto Daat-Ka-Daaktar...
As for the LEaning part, i will tell you what i do (in as much detail as i can)
before entering the corner i mentally check if the needle is in the upper range, if so i downshift by 1 gear to get the needle in the middle powerband so i can control the bike to a higer or lower speed without shifting gears, and only on throttle control, even no brakes.
before entering the curve, i slide out of the bike (positive Lean angle), and crook my knee.. then gently coax the bike to the intended lean.
I have learned that my confidence levels were significantly boosted after i started positive-leaning. before that i used to neutral-lean, i.e. my spine was in line with the bikes center line. at that time i used to lean, but i used to feel as if i am gonna slide out of control.
when the body is out of the bike, the bike is more straighter than the actual lean, and thus more tire is in contact of the road. thus more grip.. also you can still control the lean more accurately, by tilting the bike straighter or leaner, even in mid curve. i have done it many a times to avoid craters in the roads, on leans. and i am yet able to complete the curve without missing a heart-beat. but the concrete roads do tend to take away my confidence majorly.. give me tar curves anytime.
while nearing the end of the curve, you start powering up your bike, and the momentum and increaded speed tend to throw the bike straighter. i use this phenomenon to my advantage, and straighten myself onto the bike. so by the end of the curve i am dead center on the bike, and have max speed while exiting the corner, and then immidiately powershift to the next gear, and again gain more speed.
a word of caution, DO not try to brake hard while leaning, as it is a sure shot disaster recipie. control the bike only by throttle, and engine braking. also learn to power-shift (quick-shift) the gears, in such a way that the power delivery seems constant. coz while shifting to lower gears the engine acts as a brake, and the tires tend to momentaritly loose traction on the curve. (learned this during the initial learning stages)
havent had the good fortune to ride a CBR on curves, but i guess that the basic principle is the same. as for wobbly issues. i guess that Doc said right. Air pressure, cone setting and frame flexibility all play a role. i lost a lot of confidence during one of my regular rides to mumbai. i felt that leaning the bike was not responding the same way. so at lonavala, i halted and checked the air pressure. and found out that the rear tire was 10psi less. corrected it, and then was ripping and leaning as usual.

Edit: (Some last minute smart @$$ P.S.) I also feel that you might be doing the above in all earnest, as you are already riding Big @$$ Bikes, but i thought WTH, thoda gyaan fokat mein baat deta hu...
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#145 L.P.

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 12:24 AM

 arn, on 21 March 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:

This bike needs the gas on turns. It also needs precise tyre pressures and properly set steering head bearings, which some mechanics have not yet figured out. I've noticed a change at Honda dealerships  of late - everything on the CBR is tightened with a torque wrench these days.

I've never got rid of the chicken strips on my ZMA tyres. Never, in spite of it being much easier, as you say, to turn in. Even with the R15 rear suspension upgrade (which bumped up handling tremendously), it always felt just that bit disconnected and woozy at higher lean angles due to the flexi chassis which is not confidence inspiring. The CBR does not feel that way at all when you get aggressive on the corners - the rigid chassis sends it where you want it to go. Even if it feels reluctant to initially take the turn, simply increasing the lean and dialing in the throttle will do the trick. For this, though, one as to overcome the mental block of opening the throttle while going into a turn fast.

But - that takes practise - and a throttle that is being opened immediately after the initial turn in. The only area lacking on turns is the fact that the power drops dramatically after 9000 rpm and mid corner gear changes disturb the balance, so you have to know what you expect the rpm to be when you EXIT the corner and use a slightly higher gear (where you can use the mid range torque).

If you can get hold of Keith Code's book, do go through it - it will explain much better than I can in the limited time I have as to the physics of why you need to gas it through the turn.

Need to re-read a few more times :P



Chaitanya: I wanted to know Why is CEEE BEEEE AAAAR, behaving that ways, Not the ways to Lean.
Probably If you are misjudging my capabilities to lean that is because, We have been doing all sort of leanings, Positive, Counter and Street (the one you said you have your spine in the level of the bike's center line), and also because the photogrpaher we took with us was not so talented to take the picture at the right moment, he was either early or late :P
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#146 Silver Phantom

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 01:40 PM

 L.P., on 22 March 2012 - 12:24 AM, said:

Need to re-read a few more times :P



Chaitanya: I wanted to know Why is CEEE BEEEE AAAAR, behaving that ways, Not the ways to Lean.
Probably If you are misjudging my capabilities to lean that is because, We have been doing all sort of leanings, Positive, Counter and Street (the one you said you have your spine in the level of the bike's center line), and also because the photogrpaher we took with us was not so talented to take the picture at the right moment, he was either early or late :P
i thought as much, and thuss addedd the P.S. ;)
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#147 Ricci

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 08:37 PM

 arn, on 21 March 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:

This bike needs the gas on turns. It also needs precise tyre pressures and properly set steering head bearings, which some mechanics have not yet figured out. I've noticed a change at Honda dealerships  of late - everything on the CBR is tightened with a torque wrench these days.
Just the first thing that came to my mind, tyre pressure. Steering head bearings would not cause it oppose leaning, they'd cause instability/unsteadiness in leans. Plus with a pillion, any bike's handling changes, with a scared, fidgety pillion moreso !!  :D

I did get a no chicken strip ride on my Karizma once, and that was also the ride I crashed it for the final time :( . That was on Dunlop tyres - 100/90 Geocruiser at the back and 2.75 front. I think the front was defective and possibly contributed to the crash, but the rear was worn all the way to the shoulder when I stopped after a few rounds and saw no chicken strip ! Never managed the same on the P220 , maybe I'll get a worthy bike soon :first:

 pulsurge, on 21 March 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

That is an utter punishment to a beautiful bike....what you thought you were riding an R15 :P The ZMA never needed that much revs into the corner. On one of my favourite corners, I could go at 110-115 in top gear and never felt that it needed extra  throttle input.
yeah, the Karizma isn't high revving , redlining gains nothing, better to keep between 5000 and 7000.


 Silver Phantom, on 21 March 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

The Doc is an Orthodontologist (i hope the spelling is correct) Boleto Daat-Ka-Daaktar...
I think it's orthodontist, as in dental surgeon. But who else but Doc himself can describe it best !

#148 L.P.

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 08:27 AM

 Silver Phantom, on 22 March 2012 - 01:40 PM, said:

i thought as much, and thuss addedd the P.S. ;)

Arrey I was just kidding Man, :) Take it with a pinch of Salt :P
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#149 satyenpoojary

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:54 AM

Doc what are the tyre options for the CBR. Seems like people are having a tough time finding a spare...

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#150 arn

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 12:12 PM

Manufacturer recommends IRC, though I don't think these are readily available. I do not know about the grip level of the FZ tyres, and anyway's the rear has a 60 profile, unlike the stock 70. Pirelli is available apparently in both sizes, (exact size), though I'd hesitate to recommend it as:
  • I've not used the size for the CBR
  • I've found the 110/90 Pirelli among the worst tyres I'd used on the ZMA in terms of dry grip, tramlining etc (I've used two tyres, so it's unlikely that I've got bad pieces both times) Better than that - Duros, Barracudas, Sakuras. Pirelli feels better than the stock MRF, Kings (on the ZMA)
I've just switched to a BT45, more to check out the difference between a top notch tyre and OEM more than anything else, as I'd otherwise have picked up another ContiGo, which I'm pretty happy with.




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